Makeup nights: Bowling a fourth game a few times....

[Frank Goebel]

I'm wondering if anyone here has encountered a situation where a league, either one they were in or otherwise knew of, opted to bowl a fourth game instead of a whole makeup session (which would be adding a session at the end, bowling one or more double sessions, or a session on a different day of the week). I'm curious as to how it worked out. I've never known a rule that would prohibit this.

My president has suggested (to me, not publicly) the notion of doing just that. I won't get into how BLS might be configured to handle that (I will do that in the BLS-2007 forum). We have two sessions to make up, so that would be six four-game sessions. We do have five position rounds as of now (weeks 8, 16, 24, 31, and 32) so I'm thinking that adding a position round to week 15 (essentially having two position rounds to end each half) would allow us to use the position rounds as the four-game sessions.

Thoughts?

[Patrick Lajko]

Ok, does the term "anal thinking president" come to mind? Hung up on 96 games? Wants to do untold work rather than just bowling 2 extra weeks? (or just skip 'em and bowl 30 weeks). But what's the deal with 96 games? So you bowl a 4th game as a makeup? Doesn't that mean everyone changes lanes for that 1 game, since they have to bowl their proper opponent? Wouldn't that mean each of the 3 games that constitute the make-up will have a different average and handicap because they were bowled on different weeks?
Talk about causing a big confusing mess for everyone. Doing stupid things are one reason league bowling is on the decline. Time for a new league president????
Keep things simple and everyone is happy. I move for a recall of the president (or a change in medication). In the words of Larry the Cable Guy: "You can't fix stupid."

So he wants to have extra make-up games bowled AFTER a position round that effects matches which are bowled BEFORE the position round and whose results should affect the position round which is bowled before the games that affect the position round?

OK - here's one for you. Just leave those 2 weeks in the schedule. Nobody shows up. Give everyone absentee scores. Base the wins on the absentee scores. Its just like everyone bowling 10 pins below their average. Sounds fair. Now you have 32 weeks without all the confusion. And people won't have to pay lineage for those 2 weeks.

OR hit control-shift-F12 (I think, or is it alt-shift-F12? Alt-Ctrl-F12?) and BLS will randomly insert scores plus or minus 20 pins based on the bowlers average (a feature we use for testing). Call it a "virtual" bowling night. Charge for lineage if that makes people feel better.

[Frank Goebel]

Please don't shoot the messenger, Patrick....it wasn't my idea. At least he only mentioned it to me privately after our pre-season meeting and didn't bring it up to others, so there isn't much discussion going on right now. But we do have a 32-week commitment to the center. The bowlers aren't going to want to pay lineage when they aren't bowling, nor accept a smaller prize fund that would also result. But I did tell him that it'd be a lot of work on my part.

The notion of bowling a four-game night is not to have that fourth game bowled against the team that would be missed on the night not bowled due to the holiday. Instead, it would be an extended league session, and the points for the fourth game added to that night's points. In the case of my 24-point match play league, it would be 31 points (as 7 points are available each game).

The only idea I had was to put the four-game nights, if used, on the position rounds, since we already have them set up for five sessions and could easily add a sixth one. Having four games bowled for a position round would add significance to those rounds, but I didn't think of that when the president mentioned it to me. I have only mentioned it here. I mean, if we're going to have to pick six times to bowl an extra game, then let's do it with a purpose, not at random.

Last year we did two double sessions (and both were a change in week number between squads, and neither involved a position round, on my demand). The first were bowled on the same lanes without re-dressing (complete with a lot of grumbing and couple of walk-outs), the second using a second set of dressed lanes. And while it otherwise went okay, there were those who weren't amused at leaving about 11:30 at night when a league session was usually over by 9:00. Work schedules make it impossible to start the first shift earlier than the usual 6:15. But last season, I did get many compliments for having handled both of those switchovers, which included quickly processing scores and modifying lineups based on averages (if changed), also per our rules. I'll repeat what I said after both of those nights: BLS was the key to making all of that possible. I was able to bowl the second shift of the second double as a result, as a return to bowling following my injuries of a year ago.

There is a small men's league in this house that bowls Fridays that has done a few four-game nights in past years. That secretary/treasurer probably does nothing more than an Excel spreadsheet to print the standings, and I don't think he's ever submitted anything other than high (honor) scores for awards in the past.

I do know of several caveats, however. The simplest is that I'd have to make sure that the league members know that any USBC awards for series are only available on the first three games bowled. But if I have my league set up as a four-game league (where I would leave game four blank and not award points therefor, to avoid having to change the rules week to week), then individual high three-game series won't be easily tracked. However, if done, the league could offer a high four-game series taken from those sessions (don't expect me to suggest that they actually do this). But yes, all of that makes more work for me to track those things. It would be easier for me to maintain a separate Excel spreadsheet of individual high series, of both three- and four-games, on display rather than try to include them directly on the standings as a message or something.

But, if enough people go along with this idea, I'll essentially be stuck with the tasks at hand. Again, almost everyone in the league has things on other days, such as work, other bowling leagues, or other activities, to be able to do a makeup on a different night or weekend afternoon.

I just wonder how they'd handle dues on those nights (I am not a treasurer)...don't get me started....

[Patrick Lajko]

So why not just extend the season by 2 weeks like 99% of the other leagues do that want 32 weeks and have to skip a night due to a holiday? That's what proprietors would expect, too. Keep it simple.

If they really insist on that, you could consider the 4th game an extra night adn just enter 1 game & override the points. Easier than overriding the points every other week if you make it a 4 game league. In all our years, we have never heard of a league wanting to do what this president wants to do. They all only bowl 3 games and bowl a real 32 sessions.

[Frank Goebel]

I guess I failed to mention (my bad) why the bowling league starts and ends when it does: A significant number of bowlers are members of golf or softball leagues during the summer, and at that, also do those things on the same day of the week (Monday). As it is, we cut it thin by starting prior to Labor Day with some skipping their first bowling night to get in their last golf night. Extending the season even by one week wouldn't be doable for them, hence the two double sessions we did last season.

But please, the president isn't demanding that four-game nights happen; he just offered that as one possible compromise to keep all activity on the same night without staying until the wee hours of the morning (admittedly, he's one of the guys with a very early workday). I responded on how difficult it would be for the software to support such a thing (in a very simple manner, of course). I have to coordinate BLS with AMF Advantage; it gives me enough to do as it is. Thank you, just the same, for the suggestion to (if we actually go along with this crazy scheme) insert a one-game session/override. I can figure it out from there, if I have to.

[Patrick Lajko]

I would never shoot the messenger. Maybe club it on the head with a broom handle, but never shoot.

Interesting how they always put the burden on bowling. It shows their priorities. Why don't they tell the softwall or gold leagues to change their starting/ending dates because they bowl????? So they all have softball or golf the same day and time as bowling? Hmmmmmm. Seems strange. Golf at night? I thought that was a daytime activity (not a sport when you drive little carts around - just a recreational activity.)

I wonder how many people do these other inferior sports. Surprise them - tell them they can go play golf and miss the final playoffs of bowling or miss one golf night (they play at night?) and bowl the playoffs.

Go the 32 weeks then offer free beer on the first and last nights. Bet some would miss the golf for that! (providing it is a good beer, not that watered down "lite" stuff).

[Frank Goebel]

Golf can be played in the late afternoon, they play nine holes, not a whole eighteen. Daylight Saving Time makes is possible. I suppose playing with carts speeds things up and they may use a "shotgun start" (getting way off topic here) where each foursome or group starts on different holes but at the same time, thereby finishing at the same time, and all get their nine holes played in the same timeframe. Golf would probably end around 7:00 pm, then they'd have to rush over to the lanes from the links. It's just enough overlap to cause the conflict. Besides, it's entirely possible that their employers are sponsors for golf and/or softball at that.

One other thing: these outdoor sports are weather-based, so they lose playing time to rain where we don't. So they take as much good-weather days as they can manage....

[Mark Voaklander]

We had an ice storm and had to make up a session. We allowed the teams to either bowl some games after any nights session or come in and bowl what they could before the league session. I set those games as the first night of the last 7th so they had to be bowled by then.
It was pretty easy, I just held the scores until the last night of the 6th 7th (if that makes any sense), entered the scores, when we bowld the next week, we were on the 2nd week of the last 7th.
We have bowled double sessions (8 games) years ago when needed.
A little info: We bowl 32 weeks, 4 games per night, scratch league and that was when BLS only could split a season into 7ths.

[Lance Rasmussen]

Mark,

if the league was a non-USBC league, that would work. If the league was a USBC league, you are not allowed to "hold scores". A persons average must be calculated based on the games bowled to date, before going into the series.

You would need to enter the games as a makeup/prebowl. And I'm not sure that you would be allowed to do partial series makeup/prebowls when a USBC league.

[Mark Voaklander]

Lance,
Parts of it could work under USBC rules.
What we did was so long ago I'd be curious to see what the rules were back then.

Partial series would fall under 106c. Interrupted Game/Series

111f: Time Limit for Bowling. A league may adopt different time frames for individual and/or team unopposed bowling.

The average calculations would have been an issue if we were a handicap league or if the pre-bowled scores had a big impact on an entering average for a tournament.

Thankfully, with the sorry excuse for winters we have had over the last 8-10 years, we have not had any snow days.

[Frank Goebel]

I didn't think I'd have to bring up this thread again, but after talking to my president, I just have to.

A pithy description of this gentleman is that he's difficult.

I put together a one-season modification to one by-law (the one regarding scheduling and when our position rounds occur), in writing so there wouldn't be any misunderstanding once adopted. With that, my proposal calls for us to have six position rounds instead of our usual five, to make those position rounds four-game nights, and a couple other mods that are too "busy" to get into here. And I did describe it already to a few bowlers, e-mailed the details through the BLS software e-mail feature, put those details on a standings sheet that I uploaded to leaguesecretary.com. Those few bowlers I actually spoke with were supportive.

The proposal "in writing" also detailed rationales for everything (so they'd see how I reasoned it all out) and also was specific with the dates on which the position rounds would fall, the start of the second half, the whole bit.

And then I handed this proposal to the president, who snapped, "What the hell did you do this for? what do you gotta put things in writing for? you tell them they got a choice, to bowl two double nights like last year, or they bowl four games a few nights!"

Imagine, having something new to everyone and not wanting it in writing so they'd know what was going to happen? Of course, part of the proposal was a line that reminded everyone that they'd still be responsible for 32 weeks of dues even though it would take 30 sessions to get it done.

Actually, I think the president doesn't want to read...or, can't...I'll use a crayon next time....

[Dusty Clark]

And yet like all "real" politicians that aren't too bright, he/they keep getting reelected...

[Skip Horner]

Quote: "OR hit control-shift-F12 (I think, or is it alt-shift-F12? Alt-Ctrl-F12?) and BLS will randomly insert scores plus or minus 20 pins based on the bowlers average (a feature we use for testing). Call it a "virtual" bowling night."