Prebowl for 2 leagues

[Derrick]

Last night, after league, I had a bowler tell me he was going to pre bowl for next week. No problem, I was going to stay and bowl myself, not that our league rules require anyone (yet). After he bowled I heard him ask the front desk for 2 copies, I figured one for me and one for himself. A little later he left without giving me the printout, no worries, it was probably put in the drawer at the front desk that they keep pre bowled print outs in. So I went and got the folder out and saw that he had dated one of the print outs for our next Thursday league and had also dated the second sheet for his Tuesday league. Thus using the one 3 game series for both leagues.

I couldn't find anything in the rule book that applied to this situation. What is the correct ruling/action?

DC

[Frank Goebel]

While there may be no specific rule or CAQ for this instance, I would hold that a separate set of games would have to be bowled for each league, and I base it on CAQ #122. A summation of that CAQ:

A team (or individual) had pre-bowled, but an emergency forced the postponement of the entire league session for which they had pre-bowled. The team shows up to bowl. However, the pre-bowled scores are to be used, as the eligibility for that league session (rule 107a) was exhausted when they pre-bowled.

To apply that rule inversely, it would mean that a set of games can only be applied to one competition, and that it would have to be declared prior to bowling.

I will illustrate using an example I know to be in use - a parallel, as it's not an identical circumstance, but this is one where the rules for what is in this case, an association tournament, have been printed.

My association, a merged one, is having all of its divisions bowling in coincidental squads, those being Senior Open, Open, Women's, Youth 600+, and Youth <600, in a team event only. It's specifically stated that a team of all women may choose to bowl in either the Open or Women's division, but must declare that when entering. If a team wished to participate in more than one division, the team would have to re-enter, pay the entry fee for each entry, and bowl as many times as needed. The division for which that team would be bowling would be known prior to bowling.

I know that goes into a bit of detail, but I'm illustrating that games bowled can only be applied to one competition; they cannot be applied to multiple competitions. I would still give the rules department in Greendale a call (800) 514-BOWL [2695] extension 3155. And, if known, I'd give the other league's secretary a call, too.

[Derrick]

Thanks Frank.

I would think that it would not be allowed, HOWEVER, there are mail-o-graph league, where scores bowled in one league are used for another. Such as leaguesecretary.com's virtual tounaments, but those are KNOWN to be already used scores. Who knows. I'll get the number a call on Monday.

Thanks again.

[Lance Rasmussen]

Derrick,

Franks right on target. You can only use the score once.

Mail-o-graphic is a different situation.

Another similarity is "derrived events" for tournaments. I.E. Your singles event score comes from your scores bowled from your team scores. I'm not sure about the sanctionability of derrived events, but you are all within the single sanction for the tournament.

In your case, this bowler has two seperate sanctioned entities and the scores can't be "shared".

[Frank Goebel]

Derived events: I know of a center (not the one in which I bowl) that has an annual in-house tournament where one must bowl on a team consisting of members of the same league (restricted entry) and from that, one has the option of entering the doubles event with one teammate, as well as the singles event, all using the same games (therefore, one only bowls once). It's a very successful and popular tournament. I think it's sanctionable (as it's been running for quite a long time); I used to work at the print shop that prints the entry forms for that center.

Heck, "All-Events" or "Six game combine" are derived events, as well. But again, they're completely under the umbrella of a single certification.

It would be equally improper to bowl a tournament in-house and use the scores as pre-bowls for a league (or two).

[Frank Goebel]

Derrick, I'm wondering how this thing worked out with this bowler and the above situation?

[Derrick]

Frank,

That Thursday, on my way to the lanes, I called the league secretary for the Tuesday league to inquire about the scores that the bowler had submitted for that league. The secretary was less than helpful. She had no idea what his scores were and told me that she had no way to know. I will give the benifit of the doubt and assume that she meant that she wasn't near her paperwork and would not be anytime soon. Her choice of words and phrases throughout the conversation could have been better and not gave an appearance of a cover up. At the lanes I checked the standing sheets, which had not been updated, for several weeks. So I checked to see what team he was on and if any of his team mates were in this league. No. So I checked the lane assignment schedule and his opponent. Fortunatly one of his opponents bowls on the Thursday leaue and I was able to ask him what pre-bowled scores were used. While he did not know the exact scores, I was able to tell that didfferent scores were used than what I would be using for that night.

Yeah, I could have just responded by saying the bowler did pre-bowl another series for his other league, but what fun would that have been?


DC