Center requiring advance payment

[Frank Goebel]

There is a thread in the BLS 2009 sub-forum on treasurer functions that's spawned this discussion.

Put simply: A center is requiring a league (all leagues?) to pay the final two weeks' lineage no later than the tenth week of the season.

ABC, as far as I know, had not gotten involved in contractual issues with proprietors, and USBC after that, and I know of no rule, for example, prohibiting a bowler from practicing on his own pair prior to actual league play. Such a rule would infringe on a proprietor's right to business, should the only pair available be the one on which the bowler wants to do open play. That aside...

Going back to the original requirement: I'm wondering if the center might be forcing a league to go beyond the scope of USBC rules on payments. Put specifically, if a league collects lineage and prize fund payments from bowlers, all prize fund monies must be deposited in a timely manner. I don't know if prize monies can be tapped to pay lineage, especially for bowling that has not yet occurred. (Yes, I know of leagues that require advance payments for individual bowlers--all bowlers in a league, of course). If the league hasn't collected advance lineage from the bowlers, then effectively there are no funds that can be rightly applied toward lineage, I'd suggest.

I suppose the league contract can require the league to adopt such a by-law requiring advance dues payments by bowlers from which the advance payment to the house might occur, but without that, I don't see how it can work. A league that pays dues out of its prize funds would be violating the trust placed on it by its bowlers, unless the bowlers know and agree to it.

I do hope that the center applies this rule to all leagues and not selectively to first-season leagues, or leagues of a certain size or makeup.

Thoughts?

[Lance Rasmussen]

I don't believe that USBC could dictate the business practices of a center and can really only leave it to the league to make a decision on doing business with the center or taking the league somewhere else.

Like you mentioned, a center could have a contract dealing with guaranteed funds (league will pay for 20 lanes X 5 bowlers x 33 weeks regardless if there are vacancies) and could potentially say that payment for the last two weeks must be prepaid. I've only bowled leagues that require last couple weeks being prepaid, but it had nothing to do with the center lineage.

USBC can really only protect the league from its members (or vice versa) in terms of late payments, suspension, etc. But linage is an expense of the league payable to the center.

[Gary Hasse]

Seeing as I started this discussion I guess I should put my two cents worth in. I understand that as this is not a USBC covered situation that CDE cannot or possibly should not put it into their software. What I have been doing and will continue to do is show it paid through the pay lineage tab and then when the last two weeks do come up just show it as $0.00 paid at that time. I do have the last two weeks for individual bowlers covered through the software and can and do transfer the lineage of the last two weeks fund into the regular lineage to cover the output. At the end of the season I also then transfer the balance of the last two weeks fund into the prize fund and secretary fund to cover that output. Thanks for your help

[John Lorenzo]

Seeing as I started this discussion I guess I should put my two cents worth in. I understand that as this is not a USBC covered situation that CDE cannot or possibly should not put it into their software. What I have been doing and will continue to do is show it paid through the pay lineage tab and then when the last two weeks do come up just show it as $0.00 paid at that time. I do have the last two weeks for individual bowlers covered through the software and can and do transfer the lineage of the last two weeks fund into the regular lineage to cover the output. At the end of the season I also then transfer the balance of the last two weeks fund into the prize fund and secretary fund to cover that output. Thanks for your help

Our center requests last two weeks be paid in advance so they have time to clear the check for the leagues at the end of the season, the checks are issued by "corporate" and it requires a bit of time to get them issued. We just put it in our league rules that the last two weeks must be paid by XX week, and the bowlers comply as they understand the reason for itl Nothing in the prize fund is touched, this is added funds.

[HouseBowlrz]

Our center requests last two weeks be paid in advance so they have time to clear the check for the leagues at the end of the season, the checks are issued by "corporate" and it requires a bit of time to get them issued. We just put it in our league rules that the last two weeks must be paid by XX week, and the bowlers comply as they understand the reason for itl Nothing in the prize fund is touched, this is added funds.

My leagues are at corporate centers and whenever we have dealt with in-house banking, the final weeks lineage is taken out of the prize fund before the check is cut. That seems simple enough ...

Then again, don't most leagues ask for the final two (or more) weeks of dues by a certain point in the season? In theory, you already have enough to cover the lineage anyway.


my 0.02

[John Lorenzo]

My leagues are at corporate centers and whenever we have dealt with in-house banking, the final weeks lineage is taken out of the prize fund before the check is cut. That seems simple enough ...

Then again, don't most leagues ask for the final two (or more) weeks of dues by a certain point in the season? In theory, you already have enough to cover the lineage anyway.


my 0.02

That was my point, the money is already there for lineage coverage. Looked at one of your web sites, very nice!!!

[Graham Ginsberg]

My leagues are at corporate centers and whenever we have dealt with in-house banking, the final weeks lineage is taken out of the prize fund before the check is cut. That seems simple enough ...

Then again, don't most leagues ask for the final two (or more) weeks of dues by a certain point in the season? In theory, you already have enough to cover the lineage anyway.


my 0.02

I can't talk for "most" leagues, but I am not aware of any leagues at our centre doing that. First I came across it was in this thread. What's it all about? Why collect the last two weeks dues ahead of schedule? Why does the house want that - is it some form of deposit?

[Ruth MurrayAbreo]

To put another thought out to housebowlrz, in the places that I have bowled over the last 30 years, the last two-three weeks are requested by the league to encourage league bowlers to show up during the final weeks of the schedule. There are some people who feel, "well my team has no chance for the playoffs, so we won't come." The experience that some leagues were having was funds shortages toward the end of the season for this very reason. The result of this, is that more people come to bowl the final weeks and most leagues do Fun Nights or something along those lines.

One of our local centers does require that the leagues pay the last two weeks in advance, usually before what would be the final position round. They started that about twenty years ago because they were fearful they would not get their money. Some of the leagues at the time were not happy about this, but they were at the time the only place to bowl in the community. So far as I know, we all pay the advance as requested by the center.

This practice also seem to make easier to do your final audit at the end of the season as well. I show the funds paid when using CDE financial and then show the pre-payments used on the week they were intended for and at the same time, show the advance payment to the center on the week that it was actually paid. The process works well when keeping track of lineage payments to the center.

[Keith Chambers]

While my center does not require advance payment, I have made the advance payments for the last five or six years, so as to clear all records before the end of the season; however, I have never been able to make the BLS program work unless I withhold recording the advance lineage payment until the weeks that they were due.
I would be interested in learning more about how you process the payments in the manner that you describe and if you can publish an accurate end of season financial report.

[Brian Bylls]

Then again, don't most leagues ask for the final two (or more) weeks of dues by a certain point in the season?

My league, I ask for the last three weeks in advance. All bowlers have week 35 paid for by their team's deposit from the previous year (to hold their spot for the following year). Then I ask for an additional 2 weeks. This way, during our 3 week playoff session, I don't have to worry about collecting any fees. PLUS, with a league of 32 teams, gives me more time to get my financial statement in order for the last night of bowling.


Looked at one of your web sites, very nice!!! I agree - the websites are nice. Just makes me realize how UNDER paid I am as a secretary! LOL!!.


I would be interested in learning more about how you process the payments in the manner that you describe and if you can publish an accurate end of season financial report.Simple - Use Quickbooks. Made my life SO much easier keeping track of money for all 32 teams.

[Chery Cooper]

For what it's worth... in my 3 leagues (winter: 40 tms, 30 tms and ~24-26 tms) we adopted into our league rules a couple of years ago that the weekly league fees includes prepayment of last 2 weeks. At the time we did this we went up $1 on the league fee recognizing that for a 32-33 week season, that extra $1 each week provided $32-$33 which covers the (currently $16) fees for the last 2 weeks. It was slightly less when we started, but the few extra shekels were just added to the prize fund. The bowlers really like not having to worry about making any payment in that least 2 weeks, nor do they have to worry about a deadline earlier in the season to prepay last 2 weeks. Also, our center does not allow payment by check in the final 2 weeks that the league bowls in-house. For 2 of these leagues that sweep in Vegas and Laughlin, respectively, that means that the 3rd week from the end (i.e., the last week for which they must pay) cannot be paid by check. It has worked out very well. As far as getting this last two weeks' data into BLS, I don't bother, but rather keep track on an Excel spreadsheet. FYI.

[dragonlady56]

I can't talk for "most" leagues, but I am not aware of any leagues at our centre doing that. First I came across it was in this thread. What's it all about? Why collect the last two weeks dues ahead of schedule? Why does the house want that - is it some form of deposit?

I have bowled leagues for over 25 years now and except for my very first one we have always prepaid the last two weeks. This is so the funds are already on deposit for the lineage and the prize fund checks can be cut. We don't allow any payments the last 2 weeks except any arrearages due and those must be paid in cash. In the economy of the last couple of years this check bouncing issue has reared its ugly head once again as well.